BY: Byron J. Richards, Board Certified Clinical Nutritionist

Neurontin and its newer more potent version, Lyrica, are widely used for off-label indications that are an outright flagrant danger to the public. These blockbuster drugs were approved for use even though the FDA had no idea what they actually did in the brain. A shocking new study shows that they block the formation of new brain synapses1, drastically reducing the potential for rejuvenating brain plasticity – meaning that these drugs will cause brain decline faster than any substance known to mankind.

The problem of these drugs is compounded by their flagrant illegal marketing. Neurontin was approved by the FDA for epilepsy back in 1994. The drug underwent massive illegal off-label promotion that cost Warner-Lambert 430 million dollars (the very first big fine for off-label promotion). The drug is now owned by Pfizer. Pfizer also owns Lyrica, a super-potent version of Neurontin. It has been approved by the FDA for various types of pain and fibromyalgia. Lyrica is one of four drugs which a subsidiary of Pfizer illegally marketed, resulting in a $2.3 billion settlement against Pfizer.

Even though the marketing of these drugs has been heavily fined, they continue to rack up billions in sales from the off-label uses. Doctors use them for all manner of nerve issues because they are good at suppressing symptoms. However, such uses can no longer be justified because the actual mechanism of the drugs is finally understood and they are creating a significant long-term reduction in nerve health.

The researchers in the above study try to downplay the serious nature of the drugs by saying “adult neurons don’t form many new synapses.” That is simply not true. The new science is showing that brain health during aging relies on the formation of new synapses. Even these researchers managed to question the common use of these medications in pregnant women. How is a fetus supposed to make new nerve cells when the mother is taking a drug that blocks them?

These are the kind of situations the FDA should be all over. As usual, the FDA is sitting around pondering a suicide warning for Lyrica while its off-label uses include bi-polar disorder and migraine headaches. The FDA is likely to twiddle its thumbs for the next decade on the brain damage issue. Consumer beware.

Lab Reports Updates Neurontin and Lyrica Adverse Effects: The” Silent Killer”

Source:www.wellnessresources.com

305 COMMENTS

    • We need to have a class action suit! It has done harm to me! My balance has been terrible since l took neronton!!!

        • I’ve been taking it for 23 years, for an off label condition. I can barley remember my own birthdate! I’ve become very clumsy too, lately! I blamed old age and fibro! I just turned 62 the second.

          • omg same here to. I had a mri of my brain recently and there is atrophy in the cortical area, I forgot how to spell, can’t read and balance is terrible to. My movement is greatly deteriated (spelling)
            Ihave taken Lyrica for 12 years and the other one I have taken not as long.

          • It’s the same for me. I’ve been taking Neurotin for 11 years. I also take Baclofen. These drugs are none to cause psydo demintia. I am 51. This has been going on for years with me. Where’s the really aging in that. I have serious nerve damage. I tried weaning off. I was successful knocking out my 600mg afternoon dose. When I tried to go lower, I had serious nevre pain. I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place.

          • I am on it for chemo induced neuropathy. It was either take lyrica or live in pain in a wheelchair. I took my chance with lyrica. Been on it for 2 years now.

      • This sucks I have been on it for at least 18 years. Yeah my balance makes it look like I am drunk. I am on it for my carpal tunnel and my feet.

      • I say a Class Action Suite is in order here. My balance, speech, writing, typing, memory have all been effected since taking Neurontin.

      • I’m experiencing that the same symtoms. But my doctor tried to say that i have neuropathy but it has not been proven but my balance has gotten worse within the nine years that i have been taking neurontin.

      • I’ve feel the same way I have falling and it’s documented several times now and now have injury to my left hip from The Falls that I have taken

        • I’ve been in and out of hospital for falling,also I will be talking and forget why I am talking.I forget my kids names and my grandchildren..go is do u start a class action suit? I’ve been through HELL!!!!!!!

      • Don’t get involved in class action lawsuit. .I did and it took 7 years and I got 234.00 dollars..opt out if class action and sue privately..u will get mire money that way

        • I can very much relate to being in financial need. However I think the idea of a class action here is to promote awareness, not gain fiancially.

      • I doubt that balance can be attributed say if there was a lawsuit. My balance has suffered over the years also. I just finished physical therapy and I’m much much better. Balance can be attributed to many other things.

    • I agree, there should be a Class Action Suit, I had been on both medications for years for a post trauma brain injury, with long term Post trauma headaches. Now I have a Neurostimulator Implant in my supraorbital and occipital (front and back) of my skull that stimulates the nerve endings to confuse the pain receptors. It’s being pioneered out of Boston Brigham and Woman’s and I am so blessed to be one of the few that have this Pioneering device in me. Neurontin and Lyrica did NOTHING for me, but I do have short term memory loss along with word finding issues.

        • Neurontin Settlement

          In May 2014, Pfizer agreed to pay $325 million to resolve claims that it marketed Neurontin for unapproved uses. Plaintiffs in the decade-old lawsuit included third-party payers that said they bought or reimbursed patients for the purchase of Neurontin from Pfizer, or bought gabapentin from Pfizer’s Greenstone LLC generic drug unit. The case is: In re Neurontin Marketing, Sales Practices, and Products Liability Litigation, U.S. District Court, District of Massachusetts, Nos. MDL 1629, 04-10981.

      • Colleen
        I have postherpetic neuralgia with damage to trigeminal, occipital, vestibular and crainial nerves with pain reflecting to other side of my head. I’ve also had a craniotomy clipping for a fortunately FOUND brain aneurism.
        My question is does the neurotransmitter implant work well for you? And to what percentage of pain, would you say, it controls? I realize that’s not an easy question to answer!
        I’ve been looking for this, procedure in the brain, for a long time. Anxious to hear from you! Thank you!

      • I have been taking Neurontin for 15 years. 1800 mg per day for anxiety. I couldn’t function without. However I do suffer from short term memory loss and have a hard time finding words.

  1. my brother was on Lryica & died of stage 4 brain cancer age 48 was all in a short amount of time , there has never been any cancer in out family witch by t way is a large familY ?/

    • Hi Alan,
      How long was your brother in Lyrica? I’m concerned because a very close friend of mine was prescribed over 200mg a day of Lyrica 6months ago, and I’d like to help him get rid of that medication from his system (we’ll seek an alternate medicine doctor).
      thank you,
      Mike

  2. This class of drugs was dangerous for me! I was doing strange things. I literally and physically was awake but had no memory of anything I did on this drug. Today I still have memory lapses and erratic behaviors.

    • I do this also. Really started worrying about my memory. If something big was going on. Also I have tried to stop taking it and I get super emotional and almost suicidal

      • I’m with you except I take lyrica I have no balance my mind is horrible but so far has been only med to help my spasms. My mother had taken but took herself off and started taking alpha lopiec acid and said calmed the nerves in her legs am gonna start weening myself down

        • You need to talk to your doctor about Levorphanol. I was on these two meds and a lot more and now I use Levorphanol 2x day and Trileptal 3x and it helps and doesn’t mess with your mind..

    • Traci I have been on gabapentin for 5 yrs on and off. My memory is terrible and my balance is bad as well. What can I do?

  3. This is unbelievable!! My husband was on both if these drugs. For awhile both at the same time. Just got him off of the Lyrica. No wonder he’s having memory problems, not just t as a result from brain surgery.

    • Oh my, I’ve been taking both of these drugs for fibromialgya and polymialgya/ Lupus. And I’ve had a terrible time remembering anything. My daughter has really bringing it to my attention. Now I’m scared. Thanks for your story. Bless you and your family.

  4. That is crazy they have been prescribing this for years and now it seems many many people are on it. I know of elderly people who take this if this is true it can’t be god for their quality of life or what is left of it.

  5. I take the gabapentin for pain in my feet, it really helps, so what your saying is it will deteriorate my brain as I get older? Sign it n send it me do I can to take it to my attorney

    • If you get information on this, please share. I too take this fit my neuropathy. It’s used within the mental health field in large doses.

      • Yes it is! I was started on it for anxiety and also helps me with chronic back pain. I’ve been taking 2400mg every day for four years, including the 10 months of my pregnancy. I’m not as worried about myself as I am my son. I am now terrified of what damages this medication might have done to him and what the consequences of it will be for him. My fiance, and my son’s father, has also been taking 2600mg/day for the past 4 years. About 1 year ago he suddenly started having problems with his memory for no clear reason and it’s gotten progressively worse. This is scary stuff, especially since we are supposed to be protected from stuff like this by the CDC and other government agencies. Goes to show how crooked and money hungry our government is… Big Pharma owns, runs, and finances our country, whether people want to face it or not it’s happened and we need to take it back!!!

    • I do too. I have sciatica and the pain radiates to my feet. Gabapentin is the only thing thats ever helped. But now I’m worried!!

      • Dear get urself an inversion table. Even the low range ones are sooo helpful. Do it several times daily and in a month you won’t need the meds… Also take magnesium and vitamin b complex.

      • I am the same way…gabapentin is the only thing that has helped my neuralgia. And I have been on everything new under the sun. So what’s a body to do?

      • Have any of you sought alternative medicine? There is so much available with “Clinical CBD Oils” not what you get on info page promos on the internet, but from a physician supported center for integrative wellness, healing, and decreasing pain… I have clients that use a very high grade CBD that they can ingest or rub on the skin, or both, and they have had incredible results!! Many off Lyrica and Gabapentin completely. I do mail order only after a skype or FaceTime consultation, but this is the one thing that we have found to consistently work with clients, and NO, it does not have a measurable amount of thc/cannibis in it. My pain MD loves the treatment, and it has been a blessing to see successes on clients with serious issues!

    • This article greatly exaggerates what’s happening with these medications. Obviously with any neurotransmitter you don’t want to stay on it for life, but read the study or a better explanation of it before you fall prey to this scare tactic. These kinds of things are sometimes written to get a lot of attention, and the author and publisher don’t have so much concern for accuracy.

      One way you can tell that you’re being had is that when you google the terms in the story, all you can find is either the exact same story or something else that quotes it, but not the original research, or any balanced articles by people who understand the hard science behind the study itself. In this case, the only real article I could find does not support what this author is claiming.

      Try this one: https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2009/10/study-pinpoints-key-mechanism-in-brain-development-raising-questions-about-use-of-antiseizure-drug.html

      • AGREE>>>thank you for saying it…. this online site does NOT give the study or ANY real technical science info..so that is a problem for me..notice the use of alarmist language..not good science. typical nonsense spewed to fear monger without any proof at all..an 8 year old stay on mice? NO follow up i can find anywhere. i STILL hate this med, and do notice a loss of balance now back to my post stroke weakness, some memory fog..so I wonder if I am attributing it since I KNWO of this study..or if the low dose I am taking is not the issue. I AM tapering off, and will track balance…accupuncture is currently the only help to issues from a car accident + the stroke.

    • Being that the source for the article is a website to sell supplements — I call BS on this entire article.

      I also suffer from neuropathy, and I take Gabapentin as well. I’d rather deteriorate in the brain faster anyway than deal with the level of pain I am at. I’d also rather sleep…. so I’ll take the damn drug.

    • I take Gabapentin twice a day for neuropathy as well. It gives me relief but if I end up with brain damage what good will my feet be???????????? Help please.

      • My husband has been on gabapenten for 9 yeas, 300×2 per day. Has neuropathy n planter fasciitis Plus arthritis n back problems. Helps the pain n sleeping but not a cure all. Since surgery .. balance bad so uses cane but at 85 you can’t ask to be young again. I am 82 have a bit of balance problem n do not take med other than BP n aspirin! Like most meds it can affect each person differently!

    • I’m with you! Lyrics has made a huge difference in my quality of life. I can do things I was able to before. The weirdest thing is I can’t take neurontin! Had a bad reaction yet Lyrica I’m doing great on!!

      • I was on Lyrics for years and about 5 years ago my doctor took me off of it, said it would harm my heart. He put me on 800mgs of Gabepentin 3 times a day and it don’t help My pain at all. But I have not had any problems with it except my memory is all confused and I don’t remember alot of stuff. But I thought my memory loss was from me getting older…. Now I know different and will talk to doctor next week.

      • I been on lyrica 2 weeks and finally the pain is gone! My insurance wouldnt pay for it so I probably cant continue to use it cuz I cant afford it. Anyone have suggestions how to get a good discount price???

        • Look up the maker of the medicine and see if they have a patient assistance program. It’s based on your income most people get the meds free. Get the paper work all filled out and get the copies of your last tax return. Put that all together and take it to your doctor and ask if he will fill out the rx info needed and then copy everything before you or the doctors office mails it. It takes about two to four weeks and they will send the meds to your doctors office. Good luck not hard at all

        • Good rx. Google it and find the pharmacy you use and type in the med info and it will give you a discount that you just show the pharmarsist and they will use it. My gabapentin is 2 109mg 3 times a day. Helps my neurological pain and restless leg also. Good rx is the best for any med

      • Wow, it’s just the opposite for me. I had a bad reaction to lyrica but I’m fine taking neurontin. I can not stand the neuropathic pain, which is not affected by regular opioids pain pills. So suffer excruciating pain or suffer brain decline?! I guess I’ll opt for the latter:/

      • I am the same way neurontin sent me real lopey while Lyrica works well and has been my savior I take the max dose daily.

      • Same here! I have horrible neuropathy burning of lower extremities and feet due to back issues which includes surgery, which I’ve been on Lyrica for probably around 4-5 years now. It’s the only thing that works. I tried neurontin couple times due to insurance wouldn’t cover lyrica, but after taking it became overwhelmed with being extremely tired, weak, felt exhausted, and even down with almost a feeling of severe depression. I’ve been down before but never had I’d felt so down and depressed after taking neurontin. I’ve been trying to survive with sporadically provided samples drug vendors leave my doctor. Miserable trying to survive and be productive living with neuropathy.

    • Janice, I’m in the same boat. If I accidentally miss a dose of my Lyrica I’m in agonizing pain. I don’t know what I’d do without it.

      • I’m also taking Lyrica and have been for about 12 years now, 3 times a day. My balance has been off, my memory has depleted. I have a damaged Sciatica also and the pain radiates from my lower back to my feet.

      • Ditto here! But my insurance won’t cover Lyrica and refuse to take Neurontin the way it affected me after a couple tries. Surviving now on sporadically provided Lyrica samples drug company vendors dispense to my physician. Living with excruciating stinging burning pain is miserable — while still having to be productive on my job. Tried couple times and never again will I take it. Most exhausted and depressed despair feeling I’ve ever had. I’ve gotten down before like we all do, but never have I felt so depressed after taking Neurontin for a week or two. Never will take another one!

    • I can’t function without Lyrica. I don’t have the side effects that so many have. So I am grateful for the quality of life it has given back to me.

      • I’ve never experienced Lyrica side effects which I’ve taken for last 4-5 years but recently had to stop due to insurance not covering Lyrica. Been taking samples given to my doctor by drug company reps.

  6. I could not handle Lyrica due to IBS.
    So my Dr., put me on Neurontin and my Fibromyalgia has gotten worse.
    And suffer terribly from CFS.

      • Peggie what is tincture I have fibromyalgia and nerve damage all the way down my leg and and I was in agonizing pain till a dr put me on neurontin 3 x dly I have been mentioning to my family I feel like I have been forgetting things I have been on it for about 13 years now it has helped the pain but what they are saying is scary

      • Peggy,

        What brand; where did you get it; and what kind of dosage? What specifically didhe use it for? You can messageme FB Timbucto, Calif!!!
        Thanks,Brenda

    • Which form of IBS do you have? I take Gabapentin (1 300 mg at night for neuropathy). I was prescribed 1 pill 3X a day; however, I was in such a brain fog that I only take 1 at night. I am still having memory problems and I think I need to get off it asap. I have severe IBS/D so bad that I seldom leave the house. Keep posted if you hear more….sc

    • go gluten free and you can take the Lyrica. I had terrible IBS several years ago and went gluten free for about 3 years. I guess my body healed in that time. I can now eat gluten, but I try to limit it. I just don’t think life would be livable for me with all the pain from fibromyalgia and back pain. I can get by on just 150mgs once a day. sometimes it’s still very painful, but I just have to lay down and rest. try to take as little as you can of the Lyrica, you may still be in some pain,
      but that way you don’t have the side affects.

  7. Why even give the FDA that much credit. . . “they didnt even know.” They don’t care! They have been on record under oath (too many times to feel warm and fuzzy comfort for them!) stating that they weren’t there for anyone but the BIG GUYS!

    Here go to my FB page and stay up-to-date on all things health and about these guys. http://Www.Facebook.com/platinumG5

    • SLOOOOOOW TAPER OFF….I QUICK TAPERED AND ITS CAUSING ME MAJOR PROBLEMS. SLOW TAPER. I DID IT IN 3 WEEKS, NOT LONG ENOUGH. DONT TAKE THE TRASH.

    • Great question, I take Lyrica and Soma as a combo to keep really bad muscle spasms away. I have been on this combo for 8 or so years now, how do I get off them?

      • Talk to your physician. Playing doctor is not smart. There are many dangers of weaning yourself of medication such as these. Neurontin was first used to treat epilepsy. Often anticonvulsant medication and stopping them abruptly can trigger a seizure.

      • I’m Going To Ask My Pharmacist,She Is Yhe One Who Told Me Not To Take It Like Dr. said At First! I Take Two 100 MG A Day For Non Diabetic Neuropathy,But I’ll Be Damned If I Want To Lose What Brains I Have At 55Yrs Old, God Bless!!

      • Try dry needling
        Please do read this to understand a new concept.
        I call it NEEDLE INDUCED YOGA
        Research coming towards philosophy.
        NO PAIN, NO GAIN
        Yes, indeed a U turn has to be taken by researchers as no answers found anymore for chronic pain according to modern medicine.
        Here is the conclusion by these researchers and they have not included the painful stimulation itself—–

        ” These findings suggest that increased flexibility in communication within the brain is important for prioritizing task performance over pain. Future research will examine how treatments for chronic pain—medications, meditation and cognitive-behavioural therapy—affect flexibility in communication within the brain, which may contribute to more personalized treatments for chronic pain.”

        They mention medications, meditation and cognitive-behavioral therapy to be used further in research which will affect the brain which may contribute to more personalized treatments for chronic pain.

        They are really in good direction.

        Every pain physician uses medications for primary management of pain as we too do.

        Every pain physician at some point of management of pain ,refers chronic pain patients to Psychiatrist for Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy.

        Agreed till now!

        Now the real twist of management of chronic pain patients start’s with – MEDITATION

        Mind it, it’s a researchers thought.
        Now question arises that,
        HOW MANY PAIN PHYSICIAN AROUND THE WORLD TEACH MEDITATION ?

        DO PAIN PHYSICIANS REFER CHRONIC PAIN PATIENTS TO YOGA CONSULTANTS, WHO KNOW HOW TO MEDITATE ?

        ANSWERS MAY VARY IN ‘N’ NUMBER OF WAYS.

        HERE IS A GLIMPSE OF WHAT I PERCEIVED IN MY JOURNEY TOWARDS BECOMING A PAIN PHYSICIAN.
        It’s around a year ago, I was selected for one year Fellowship in Chronic Pain Medicine under Maharashtra University of Health Sciences at Ashirvad Institute for Pain Management and Research,Dadar under guidance of Dr Lakshmi Vas.I had read a article on,” How to start a Pain clinic” by Dr Lakshmi Vas in Indian journal of Anaesthesia, Post-graduate special edition of Pain in 2005,since which my interest in pain was born.
        And it took about 12 years for me to reach my destination at AIPMR,Dadar.
        Furthermore I had to leave Pune where I was a Free lance Anesthesiologist and shift to Mumbai for pursuing my fellowship.
        Again like the saying goes ,” Fortune favours the brave”, happened to me.My elder brother, Shri Avinash Sopan Waghmare was working as Assistant Professor in Joshi-Bedekar College(Thane College) in PHILOSOPHY department.And to further benefit I was helping him in his M.Phil thesis on Hathpradipika by Svatmarama.
        This started my journey in Chronic Pain Medicine and Hath-Yoga side by side.
        Now,what I learnt from Dr Lakshmi Vas Madam was DRY NEEDLING , which was quite different and additional tool to combat Chronic Pain as compared to other leading Pain physicians in this country who seldom practice it .(as I have been attending courses and conferences all over India.)
        We at AIPMR do follow standard treatment line and to it add-on Dry needling for the Muscles involved in Chronic Pain.Dry needling sessions involve inserting Acupuncture needle’s in the involved muscles and keeping them in for atleast 20-30 minutes,and do physiotherapy modalities and myofascial release after needle’s are removed.
        Now coming to the other concept-
        “Sthira Sukham Asanam ” is a well known verse by Patanjali in his Yoga-Sutra.
        I perceive it as- we have to be stable and painless in a posture which we use in daily life.
        Hatha-yoga , which is considered the most difficult path to achieve Perfect Bliss state, states that to become stable and painless in an asana,we have to go through the following four stages-
        1. Physical
        2.Mental
        3.Intellectual
        4.Spiritual.
        For reaching physical,mental, intellectual and spiritual stages one has to practice the asana for 24,48,72and 96 minutes respectively without any disturbance.
        But it seems that it is of great difficulty to achieve one or all stages as per one’s own perspective.
        Also standard MEDITATION requires one to sit in a Asana .
        But it’s difficult for a patient of Chronic Pain to sit in an Asana and then further concentrate on doing Meditation.
        I have correlated the fact after undergoing Dry needling sessions on myself and on patients that,it is unable to move parts of the body which are under treatment as it would give much more pain stimulation.It is this pain stimulation that helps these Chronic Pain patient’s in reducing their pain and which is always explained to patients by Dr Lakshmi Vas Madam that “No Pain, No gain”.
        So being motionless due to dry needling for more than 24 minutes definitely helps these patients at the Physical stage and the way the patient is guided through this process also helps to take them certainly towards one’s own level of mental, intellectual and finally spiritual stage of Asana and further to the first stage of Meditation.

        Also there is a proverb in Marathi language -” Katyane kata kadhane”.It means we have to use a pointed object to remove a pointed object that has pierced a body part.

        Also,” Like cures like” is Homeopathy principle.

        So inflicting pain by use of Dry needling to treat chronic pain is thus a valid option.

        Here indeed DRY NEEDLING is the painful stimulation which modulates the brain mind complex of the individual patient and affect flexibility in communication within the brain, which contributes to more personalized treatments for chronic pain.

        Dr Kailas S Waghmare
        MBBS,MD ANESTHESIOLOGY,AFIH
        FELLOW CHRONIC PAIN MEDICINE
        (AIPMR, DADAR)
        PUNE PAIN CLINIC
        9561185892
        [email protected]

        • Thank you for you’re time and trouble if only more people here in the west would listen and learn from people like you….the method is safe and works! Good luck in getting the message out…although people here just want a quick pill for everything…and look what happens ??? addiction to Lyrica are some of the worst withdrawals ever worse than Heroin…
          Dry needling is good for pain and withdrawals

      • Can your muscle spasms be due to low magnesium and calcium? I had parathyroid issues and now I get horrible spasms especially at night. The minerals save me.

  8. Figures my doctor denied me marinol which is prescription THC saying everyday users for a year shrank their brain but if she continued to read on it said it increased connectivity in the brain…she prescribed me 300mg gabapentin…I am going to stop taking it I’m 2 days in taking 300mg I will take 200 mg tonight then 100mg for a few days then get off this garbage and I will be sure to voice my reasoning to my doctor and seek a new doctor…at this rate Im going to run out of doctors to see

    • I have been taking 2700 mg per day for almost 2 years now, I wish i could stop it now but I’m thinking it will take a while!

    • Speak to your doctor’s about the rate to wean yourself off of the drug. One week may be too fast. It could take much longer to avoid an adverse reaction. Someone else made a comment the three weeks was too fast for her.

  9. My husband takes Gabapentin for spinal chord pain. He has spinal stenosis & has had 2 surgeries on his spine. I’m not a fan of Big Pharm and have never been comfortable with him taking this drug. I will be encouraging him to get off them asap!!

    • This is why I took it for spine pain now dioganised as spinal stenosis. I noticed my words were garbled I was joking yo start with . But I weaned my self off quite quickly without any effects. But I feel much more bright and nit muddled any more. I would advice against them if possible. However I do take 50mg every night for sleep of Amitriptyline. I have severe arthritis now try to just use paracetamol occasionally codeine .

    • I have curvature of the spine and had 2 ops as a kid. They put me on gabapentin about 15 years ago to help stop the pain. I stopped taking all my meds about 4 years ago after having a football sized tumor removed which 10 year of HRT caused. I went vegan and don’t eat processed foods and the tumor has not returned. If I need any pain relief now I use white will bark and make a tea which really helps. I wont go back on meds again there are alternatives out there and I will use those. I really do believe that most meds do more damage than good.

    • Susan I don’t know enough to advise, but my strong response is that your husband should get some guidance as he gets off the drug. It may work against him to get off them asap.

  10. This is so upsetting, my daughter was prescribed this medication at 6 years old for her epilepsy. Today she is 10, she is being treated for depression, anxiety, and behavioral problems. On top of that she went from being all strait A student, to a barely scraping by. Epilepsy is scary enough with out side effects of these medications.

    • My son is also on it for epilepsy he had laser brain surgery back in December he is almost 6 Months seizure free but won’t be winged off meds for another year and a half what to do I hate this his memory stinks but partly from seizures

  11. Where is the research studies to back up what you are saying? If you are going to write a medical article you must site your sources. You can’t just say (or make up) what you want.

    • I agree with source citations, but big pharma payed for research. They aren’t going to show negative in a study. I’m sure the side effects are documented but the research was aimed at pain relief. It does provide the decreased nerve pain. But ever wonder why or how? If it slows nerve over activity then it is reasonable to expect it would inhibit neuronal connectivity.

    • There has already been a major lawsuit about Neurontin just a few years back so the information about Neurontin is definitely out there to be found

    • I’ve feel the same way I have falling and it’s documented several times now and now have injury to my left hip from The Falls that I have takenhttp://www.seegerweiss.com/drug-injury/neurontin/ here’s the link

  12. My healthy dog, that had a torn ligament in his back leg, was put on gabapentin and he was dead 4 weeks later! I’d definitely stay away from this drug!!

  13. I have been in Lyirca for a year now. I feel fine. And it really help my back. But will keep.a eye on my memory. Thanks for the IFOM

  14. I’ve been on it for a few years, is there a legal battle going on, I have been having facial tremors since and headaches also

  15. What do I do they have me on 300 mg of lyrics 2 Times daily And 800 mg neurotin 3 Times daily And if I’m out of either I feel like I’m dying what do I do

  16. I have been RX ‘d both by neurosgeon to try to help with neuropathy from my spine. Lyrica did not help and gabapentin played with my head so much, I had to stop it. Eyes would not focus, nightmares, disorientation so bad I almost turned down the wrong side of a boulevard with an island in the middle. Never again and have warned others about the drug long before this study.

  17. Both drugs are now abused . It is given after drug detox and taken along with drugs like suboxone. By the way fibromyalgia doesn’t exist

    • Wrong about fibromyalgia. Another one of those “all in your head” syndromes because a mechanism hadn’t yet been discovered. It has now, just recently confirmed.

    • Oh so fibro doesn’t exist excuse me but my sources say they do and that means my doctors I was diagnosed with it 20 years ago so think what you will I really don’t care everyone is entitled to their opinion but to say fibromyalgia doesn’t exist it’s like saying cancer doesn’t exist or any other disease for that matter.

    • Wow! I guess Dinosaurs never existed either!? Oh, & I guess because you can’t see it, Air doesn’t exist, & neither does love right? I will be 45 in a few days and I have had Fibromyalgia since I was a young teen and Dx’d when I was around 27. Unbelievable!

    • Wtf do you mean fibromyalgia doesn’t exist??? Then you tell me what I’ve been suffering from for the past 15 years that’s completely shadderd my life?

    • Fibromyalgia does exist and is a very real and painful disease. I thought the same thing until I was diagnosed with it at 43. It’s like saying heart disease doesn’t exist… until you have a heart attack. Fibromyalgia is a diagnosed disease. Hope you aren’t afflicted by it.. but if you are.. you will never be the same again.

    • If you are fortunate enough to not have fibromyalgia, then bless you.

      For those of us who have it, we live with its pain and we know very well that it does exist. Saying that it doesn’t is as ignorant as saying that cancer doesn’t exist, simply because you’ve never had it. I suppose not everyone automatically comes with compassion and a heart or brain.

    • And you’re an idiot. Fibromyalgia is real. The only way to diagnose it is to rule out everything else. It is painful and tiring and debilitating. You need to get into the 21st century. And if the drugs are abused, it is the doctors abusing the prescribing of them, because they are not abused by the patients. There isn’t one person that would willing take these unless it is with the promise of reduced pain. They cause dizziness, instability, headaches, and a whole list of issues. These are not drugs you can become addicted to.

  18. Wow! I was on gabapentin for years for epilepsy. Luckily I’m on a different medicine now. Taking something to help my brain, while it was killing it in the mean time!

  19. This might actually be true.I’ve been on this drug for years for nerve pain in my back.Lyrica just didn’t do nothing for me. I just said the other day that I can’t remember anything. I hope and pray this is not the reason why.

  20. 900 mg a day to help peripheral nerve regeneration following surgery 1.5 years ago. I would like to see the study…

  21. I have been on Lyria, Gabapentin, and Neuronton for nearly nine years for peripheral neuropathy caused by Lovastatin, Mevecor, made by Merck. My doctor gave me wrist splints for carpel tunnel which I did not have when a dog knob was too painful to turn. Your brain is Cholesterol, your nerve fibers wrapped to protect them from irritation from your muscles, and your immune system needs cholesterol. In all three cases I asked my doctors if symptoms were being caused by the Statin and later the Neurontin. They said no. They told me to stop calling when Stain side effects were reported. Really nasty. During that itme I found an article from a Scandinavian medical journal that said statins could cause peripheral neuropathy. Her office told me not to bring in the article and stop bothering them. It described the symptoms of serious progression to rhabdomyolysis, darkening urine with strange odor. That was happening to me. It’s caused by the breakdown of muscle including heart muscle. I stopped Mevacor immediately, and wish I had demanded a urine and blood test right away. The hand pain stopped quickly. But the pain continued in my feet and has for the past nine years, and today I learned of the frightening and serious side effects of Neurontin. I have often brain fog, sometimes worse days than others, depending on how severe the pain is that day. I have trouble recalling words and names, find it difficult to stay on task, and get distracted and overly tired, wanting to sleep. I have felt it to be harder to make decisions. I am afraid of taking it any more. I am 74, used to hike 8 miles hikes and mile elevation, sometimes twice a week. Now picking up my RX after doctors appointment is enough for one day. I will be looking into other options as that was why I moved to the Gainesville area because of the neurology dept, but they are indifferent, impersonal and have nothing to offer me. A waste of time and money to move here. Going to be looking into alternative treatments. Not sure that cannoboids can relief this pain, as I have tried drops and cream. My skin on my feet peeled with the crème. It is frightening to think I could be causing more damage with each dose, and to think the doctors and ;pharmacists told me they knew of no long term damage taking Neurontin. What a racket. No one wants to be responsible. Mevocor had a full page alert two years ago last February and had a nearly full page triangle filled in with yellow with a dark large exclamation mark and said that Lovastatin, Mevacor can cause peripheral neuropathy. Get to an attorney. One class action going but not adding client now. So we need another large class action, as they lost their 3 years to file a claim as they intentionally hide the side effects of peripheral neuropathy and knew about it.

    • I love how just because some one writes a bunch of stuff on something with no actual studies, test results, or any credible factual information with sources to back it up all the sheep follow suit and talk about getting off of the said medication or the inner hypochondriac in every one comes out and bow any little thing u can relate to this is the medications fault now. Lol. It’s crazy how ppl will believe anything they read without doing any further investigation or ask more questions. Just because someone says it doesn’t make it true. Just because some one writes it doesn’t make it true. Just because u read it on the internet doesn’t make it true. I have no idea whether this is true right now but I dam sure am not about to change or stop taking a medication that’s bee. Helping me for years over 1 article with no resources. I’ll be doing my own investigation not just relying on a random article. Keep drinking the cool aid guys

      • Krystle I can to agree with this article. I have been on Lyrica. for 3 years & put the side effects down to my age until I found info in March by chance. I am 72 & am not a gullible person, my husband a sceptic also believes after seeing me suffer from withdrawals. My Dr said it is a very dangerous drug & has numerous patients with problems. I belong to a group Lyrica Survivors with a membersip of nearly 5000 & it is heartbreaking to read what some are going through. True it doesn’t happen to everybody & a friend of mine went cold turkey at 150mg & didn’t suffer any withdrawals which is wonderful. The fact that Phizer has been fined so much is evident things are not what they seem. It was originally prescribed for epilepsy so to prescibe it for anxiety & depression is ludicrous. I was on no other medication & still not but suffer things I have never had in my life before. I have done a lot of research & now taking natural remedies that are helping Peripheral Neuropathy far better than Lyrica did. Not everyone who have problems are hypochondriacs, I certainly am not.

      • There have been plenty of other articles just like this one who does provide their sources. Do a little research and you will find them. It’s not hard to look it up.

      • Omg TY!!!!! This is maddening to read these replies. That lady before you is complaining of memory loss …..she’s 74!!!! My mom is 72 and the last 5 yrs her memory has definitely been affected. She’s healthy as a horse and takes NOTHING! LOL

    • You are wise to seek another opinion, since the damage is real. I have taken Gabapentin 7 years for post chemo (oxyplatinin). I will be weaning off and seeking research to take to my oncologist. I have brain fog, sleepies, and off balance times that have caused me to fall. I used to think it was chemo residual. Now I will see if those symptoms decrease.

    • Move to Oregon, Aloha has many Pot shops, move close to the coast, swim every day and pray for an offshore earthquake. A good dooby and a tsunami will solve all your problems. And take your docs advice, quit reading unsupported and fleeing research papers, and if you do don’t call them with BS questions.

    • I noticed I can’t remember things, recalling names and things…now I’m worried…taking Gabapentin for pain for spinal stenosis.

    • Hon, you have my sympathy, I have taken neurontion for quite a while. I had seizures most of my life. They gave it to me when I was 22. By the time before surgery I was taken 10 capusals a day. Thats not counting dilatham, mysolin,phenobarbatal.by the time we got done almost 40 pills aday. Thats not counting the others. Neurotion did the worst to me. Memory, swelling, (big time) weight gain (bad). So I understand all the way. The seizurs were still not under control. Thats what made it.hard. like you said sleep.gone. it just mixed up complety. I am sorry for you. I hope things get better for you. They did for me. Thank the Lord. Amen. Kathy

  22. This is a big concern for me as I take 1,500 mg of Neurontin everyday, for nerve pain. I have CIDP. (Chronic Inflammatory Demyelinating Polyneuropathy). This a a VERY rare condition. I don’t know if there is an alternative to this to help with the nerve pain. It was prescribed to me in 2009, and I am still on it.

    • I took Neurontin for about 2 weeks, that was the worst thing l have ever taken! It has messed my balance up! I stopped taking it afer l got where my balance was so bad l could hardly walk without holding on to something! I thought when it got out of my system l would be like before l took this, but no it does not get any better and it has been 3 or 4 months now and it is not better!!! I have to walk with a walker to be able to walk without falling. I fell twice when l started taking this medication, and l feel like l am falling several times a day!! No one should take Neurontin! There should be a law suit for the damage it has caused me!!

      • Have you filed one? It’s up to you to do that.
        But that just seems a bit extreme to me. Only taking it for 2 weeks. I took Lyrica for about 2 years, now I take gabapentin, 600 mg 3× daily. It does mess with my memory, speech and my balance. And I have been on that for about 2.5 years now.
        So whatever is causing your problem is most likely not the medicine. I’m sure when you contact a lawyer they will tell you that.

  23. I left an arduous and detailed message and when I posted it the message said I already posted that. It was not true. I lost all that I wrote. Guess they do not want to have information shared is it is against pharmaceuticals, pharmacists and doctors causing injury to patients. I had not posted here before because I never saw this site before. I want my comment posted. I object. This is maddening. I have been seriously damaged by all and today just became aware of the damage that Neurontin cause Delete repeated word to my brain when I asked a pharmacist over the past year if the medication could change the functioning of my brain. He said he didn’t think so. They are too busy filling bottles with labels, and making a good salary while the people who trust their knowledge learn they don’t know, or don’t care.
    Report my comment. It is in there. I unfortunately did not make a copy. Don’t take any drugs or vaccines from any doctor, pharmaceutical or clinic as they are a scam. A money factory. The CDC is a private Corporation and listed under Dunn and Bradstreet. Since when does a private for profit corporation making patents and publishing a required schedule of vaccines get their authority. They make money for every vaccine given. Charge them with criminal charges for the multitude of children who have been injured and died. When will our government start doing it’s job and protecting Americans instead of helping corporations make money? How the heck does Trump get to appoint the head of the private corporation??? To keep it secret so we won’t find out???? Only a Corporation would say to keep giving vaccines when the rate of autism is now known to be caused by vaccines, and some infants and children die right after being given multiple vaccines. It is your kid. Protect them from these monsters.
    All harmed by Mercks Lovastatin there is one large class action filed now and they will not sign up ore. But we can start another class action if we can get enough people together since the FDA reported on a one page full Alert that Lovastatin can cause peripheral Neuropathy. And it did cause mine. They lost their three year protection from law suits cause they hid this from the public and did not disclose to doctors or pharmacists. That was two years ago last February, so get the suit going before February 2028. I want to join you. It has destroyed my retirement and so has Neurontin to control the pain of neuropathy. They are so vile one might wonder if they planned it that way. Do not take statin drugs. No proof it prevents heart attacks and your brain is made of cholesterol, your nerve fibers wrapped with cholesterol and your immune system needs cholesterol. Eat a heathy diet and take Niacin which is good for you.

  24. I was on Lyrica due to nerve damage and paralysis. It caused me to gain 100lbs. I was up to 2 in the morning and 2 at night. I took myself off against my doctors wishes. My paralysis got better and I can walk and jog a little. The nerve pain has over time subsided but when I get it or the cramping I eat mustard with a teaspoon and it goes away. I will never take it again and at the time I was told I needed it for the rest of my life.

      • Krystle I can to agree with this article. I have been on Lyrica. for 3 years & put the side effects down to my age until I found info in March by chance. I am 72 & am not a gullible person, my husband a sceptic also believes after seeing me suffer from withdrawals. My Dr said it is a very dangerous drug & has numerous patients with problems. I belong to a group Lyrica Survivors with a membersip of nearly 5000 & it is heartbreaking to read what some are going through. True it doesn’t happen to everybody & a friend of mine went cold turkey at 150mg & didn’t suffer any withdrawals which is wonderful. The fact that Phizer has been fined so much is evident things are not what they seem. It was originally prescribed for epilepsy so to prescibe it for anxiety & depression is ludicrous. I was on no other medication & still not but suffer things I have never had in my life before. I have done a lot of research & now taking natural remedies that are helping Peripheral Neuropathy far better than Lyrica did. Not everyone who have problems are hypochondriacs, I certainly am not.

  25. I was just given Lyrica for fibromyalgia pain…told the dr that I would try it………one pill…..thats all i took cuz I woke up the next day and couldnt stop crying…….did nothing for pain……….told her would never take it again

  26. I was on Lyrica and Gabapentin for a few years for Peripheral Neuropathy before being put on Hydrocodone-and Tramadol. My ability to remember names and my short term memory has declined to the point that it really is bothering me. Most of the times I forget my dogs name and I don’t even remember showering, shaving, brushing my teeth, or getting dressed in the morning. I wonder if these drugs could be a contributor to that? Who knows!

    • I can guarantee you it is from the Tramadol. I had terrible confusion when they put me on the maximum dose. My doctor switched me to ocycodone and the difference is night and day. I have 1/10th the symptoms and feel like myself.

    • I have been on neurontin for 5 yrs.for arthritis and tendatnitis and have had no problem out if it.I wouldn’t know what to do without it .Been on pain pills they didnt help.I’m in pain all the time .Bones hurt to the touch and they help me able to get up and do my daily household chorus.

  27. I want to know more about this study in wat to do if u are on either of these meds are they a law suit for these being on it i been on neutron for a long time in still is I need to know wat to do

  28. I am 69 and take Gabapentin which is great for my pain. I do have a little brain fog. I haven’t found anything better than Gabapentin so what do I do. Perhaps it is not related but I smoke a pipe. In the years I have left I have choices and whilst neither may be good for me I will stick with them. I have one life. It is an easier choice for me as I am older than many.

  29. Listen people…this is someone just making a comments..where are the studies…there isnt any because this is just another company defaming so they can introduce their drugs…the doctors are telli g you to ignore this because they know whats going on …you can make arguments that caffine is so terrible for you that you would never touch it again…eggs are supposed to be terrie for you because of the cholesterol hence enter “eggbeaters”…there will be a drug thats supposed to be better then neurotin that will emerge just wait and see

  30. I have been prescribed Gabapentin; 800 mg 3 times a day, for 4 years now for Restless Leg Syndrome. My wife and family have told me countless times that I have forgotten whole conversations about topics I would swear we had never discussed. I have been told that RLS is related to Parkinson’s disease, as is memory loss. When I voiced my concern to my Dr she told me “Oh, you’re just getting older”. I’m only 53 and have had RLS my entire life. I was, and still am, prescribed Valium for 13 years to relieve the symptoms at night so I can sleep, but the memory loss has increased since taking Gabapentin. An earlier remark posted above mentions the use of “statins” to fight cholesterol, and, of course, I have been taking Simvistatin for 15 years. Fenofibrate has been added to assist in fighting cholesterol for the last 4 years as well. Two scripts for RLS, two scripts for cholesterol. Add in two scripts for high blood pressure, a muscle relaxer, Ibuprofen for pain, and Prozac for anxiety and I’m taking a handful of pills twice a day. I’m not “losing” my mind, I’m erasing it! I’m not a hypochondriac. I haven’t requested (all) of these meds, I just assumed that I’ve been prescribed them because I’m “getting older” and need them to live a “healthier life”.If, and when, I hear of a class action lawsuit against the makers of Gabapentin I’ll be sure to return here and share it with you.

  31. I took Gabapentin once for Idiopathic Neuropathy. I thought I was dying. Was Very Weak. Felt as if all Life was draining from my body. I literally slumped onto the couch.stayed there for hours before regaining my energy.anyone else have similar experience ?

  32. I have lost all feeling in my entire body and they dr don’t my know why. I was taking 300mg. gabepenten 2 x daily. My legs went numb and they increases it to 600 three times a day. I lost total body feeling from head to toe. When I was checked for a pinched nerve they found I had IIH, now I have ringing in ears, headaches almost daily weakness and tired, eye problems, can’t concontrate, can’t remember, don’t know where I am or where I’m going, my words don’t come out right, and I can’t coordinate my feet where they need to go. It’s feels like walking with heavy stilts. My feet burn, I can’t use my feel my hands which I have become a messy danger in the kitchen. I can’t even work, This is pitiful living!! Dr says this is two different things, but just don’t know what. Something I gotta live with.

  33. I am horrified as I take Lyrica for muscle spasms. I have a condition called dystonia. Each time I have asked a neurologist if there is another drug they say NO.

  34. Well I have something going on hat drastically my hands and feet and with out neurotin I can’t use them and believe me or not without them my legs cramp up so bad all day moving sitting or laying to the point of me in tears so I don’t know which is worse memory loss or the pain and no use of hands …

  35. I have been on neurontin for many yes, 800mg 4 times a day and yes I have brought up to my doctor, that I have been having word retrieving events, can’t remember the “word ” just not there ! He’s not worried, but I am.

  36. I used to be on Gabapentin for Fibro and CFS changed a few years ago to Pregablin, I take 600mg every day, I find that it dulls the over sensitive of my leg but my memory has got worse. My daughter has said quite a few times that she is worried I have Alzheimer’s.
    Also, I have just been diagnosed with Heart Failure, makes me wonder if this could be connected!
    The problem I would have if I stopped taking it is that it feels so uncomfortable wearing clothes that I would need to take something in place of it.

  37. I have had Peripheral Neuropathy going on 10 years. I have tried everything. lyrica and Amitriptyline make it so I can spend a few hours a week in my garden. I also smoke to help too. My memory is failing a lot lately but I prefer to not be in pain.

  38. I take gabapentine
    It helps my nerve pain and I don’t have problems remembering things
    Plus I take 4 other medications that help with my other pain that I have
    Taken for awhile now, no problem with remembering things no major side effects either. I did try Lyrica the docs can get rid of that stuff

  39. Sooo glad I quit taking this crap and found a healthier way! I couldn’t even function on these meds. I believe in natural products!

  40. I have been either Neurontin, Gabapentin, and Lyrica for over a decade. I am So Happy to finally be able to realize that this medicine very well may be why my memory is non-existent a lot of the time. I have a hard time remembering words and names are a mess for me. Like with many things in life, you don’t find out how bad it’s hurt you until the damage is done. I see my Dr next week and I will be chatting with him about this. There has to be another way to deal with nerve pain. I will be stopping with or without permission and Pray that I can come off them with no major issues. God Be With Us All!!! I would join a class action. I cannot believe these companies get away with stuff like this. I am so sorry to all of you hurt by this!!! I will be praying for you!!

  41. I was on both of these at different times. Lyrica for a LONG time. I did not like, not having control of my thoughts, thinking, and moodiness . I had problems remembering things from day to day. My wife and I were convinced that I was having an early form of Alzheimer’s. I have been of Lyrica now for a short while, (due to other reasons), and now I am having an issue remembering things that happened farther back in time. We are considering bringing this to the attention of not only my pain doctor, but family doctor as well. (Up till today I was actually thinking about asking the pain doctor if I could go back on it, because it does work for pain)

  42. I have a severe case of Neuropathy, the pain intolerable. In 2013 when I was diagnosed Doctor perscribed Gabapentin and Nortriptilyn. In no time I was taking 900mg of Gabapentin 3 times a day and Nortriptilin 25 mg 3-4 times a day. That alone did not ease my pain. I also take Oxymorphone er 30mg twice and oxycodone 15mg 4 times a day. When I told my pain management Doc. I still was barely experiencing pain levels I could live with. She added Lyrica 150 mg 2 times a day. I have since quit taking the Gabapentin but I do take all the rest and have been for approx. 5 yrs. It only makes my pain tolerable. I have not walked to my mail box in 3 years. Brain fog, oh yes. I put that on the oxy’s so I find this article very interesting. I know what I do is far from healthy but the alternative, my severe pain is not an option. Since medical pot became legal in my State I ran right out and got the card. Pot works, but I have a problem there. I can’t smoke it because I cough my lungs out. I have tried the edibles, they just don’t do it. I don’t know of course, if smoking alone would be enough. Go figure it finally becomes legal and I can’t take a good hit. I’m still researching other alternatives. If it is legal in your state I highly recommend you try it. I have more story to tell but I think I will end here for now. I do want to return to read more comments. Maybe we will as a group have new news to share. This is a horrible disease we all have and I truly feel your pain and frustration. I do have a question. Are your symptoms including enlargement of your affected area getting worse? What started in my ring and pinky finger of my left hand and a spot on my left foot has morphed into both hands, all my fingers half way, both feet up my calves and into my thighs. The most painful is my feet and crippled toes. My calves are very tight, both my calves and thighs are numb and always tingle. It’s like the Blob is consuming me. Anyone else?

    • I have Demylinating Sensory Polyneuropathy. I took to your comment because I usually start convos regarding my own health with “I have a severe form of neuropathy” just the same as you did. Your pain is much worse than mine as I take Gabapentin 800mg 3/day. And Norco (vicodin) 10mg 3/day. And I am able to walk. Just not for long. The nerve damage in my body started in the lower legs and has now progressed to everywhere. I have no swelling, unless I’m being too active. I’m wondering if the edibles or oils you tried of Marijuana were pure? That industry will take a long time to secure regulation of purity. In the meantime, every company is going to claim they are. If you did the due research, and I’m talking looking for the tests that a 3rd party company preformed to validate a companies purity, I’d maybe have another shot at it, using only that supplier. These CBD oils and other products could have a tiny trace of the good stuff in it, being diluted down with who knows what… yep, that’s completely legal to do… and even the tiny trace could be of garbage quality. I myself am wanting to get off both meds. But like you, it’s necessary I take them. The pain is just too unbearable. I’d be back to laying in bed, constant contractions grabbing every part of my body all day. Gripping pain that kept me bedbound and in tears. I don’t want to go back to that. Gabapentin does work for it. Sadly 🙁 I cannot afford the natural treatments yet. I lost both my jobs due to this illness, am a single mother, and have no real income. Once I get disability, or my small business from home takes off, maybe I’ll be able to afford the natural route. Until then, my best bet is to keep taking these.

  43. I take 1200 to 1500 mg of Neurontin a day for immense pain in left foot; which has now moved into my shoulder because of having CRPS (Complex Regional Pain Syndrome). There is no cure.
    This is called the suicide disease if you have no relief. So there is no real alternative here. Unless you can offer one. Would very much be interested. Ty

    • I have taken 2700 mil. a day of Neurontin for over 10yrs I am very concerned about this I am just going to wean myself off now I know why I can’t say things and I don’t remember things anymore this really concerns me what can I do

  44. i have been on gabapentin and on lyrica it made me gain over 80 lbs i was foggy and had pain in my left side this drug is a horrible death sentence drug it made me retain water and swell up. i could not stop eating and i felt like a robot. changed the way i thought about things. Stay far away from this drug very far it is a very hard medication to get off i was on 300 mg lyrica a day and on 600 mg of gabapentin for over 2 yrs. i was told lyrica had less side effects and was switched i was told by my dr it was a safe drug and i would be healthy

  45. I have been on 600 mg of gabapentin every night since 2009, besides my meds for seizures, Zonisamide and 1 mg of clonozepam twice a day. I use cannabis in between. I have had absolutely not one side effect. I was however on simvistatin that I stopped taking months back. My cholesterol zoomed up so I started eating lots of green stuff and put turmeric on everything and cholesterol started going down.

  46. You people talking about taking Neurontin and Gabapentine do realize that Gabapentine is just the generic form of Neurontin, right?
    My husband and I both take Gabapentine and I too would like to see this study. We both have memory problems but are also on alot of other meds that could be causing that problem

  47. Wow this is all very shocking to me. I have been on Gabapentin for 14 years for back pain with nerve pain and now for MS. I now take 3200 mg per day. I have been experiencing memory issues for awhile now. I can be typing and can’t remember how to spell simple words or when I’m talking with someone I also can’t remember things and it is very frustrating. I have been blaming this on my MS but to think it could be from a medication I take that helps me is very scary. I would love to see the official reports with these findings. I will be talking to my dr about this.

  48. I take a low dose of Gabapentin (300mg twice a day). I have MS and my facial nerves are affected. I’ve tried many drugs, and drugs in combination with others, even stronger pain meds like Percocet. Gabapentin is the only med that relieves the pain. So I’m willing to accept the possible side effects in order to have relief from the pain and some quality of life. The pain immobilizes me, with the drug it is lessened to background noise, something that’s there, but doesn’t distract me. I realize it is there if I tune into it, but for the most part I can ignore that pain level.

  49. I have been on Gabapentin for years. It was prescribed for me to try and reduce my migraine headaches. After reading this, I am terrified to know how much damage it has done to me. Will be researching this further.

  50. I have been taking Neurontin aka Gabapentin since 2006. 600 mg 3xs a day. I have a terrible memory. I take other drugs and knew one of them was the culprit. Now I firmly believe its the Neurontin. When I say memory loss I cant remember what I did 3 days ago. My short term memory has been so severely damaged. My problem is getting off the drug. I use is for severe anxiety. It works great but after what I just read I hope my doctor can help me get off it and suggest something else. This article is scary and so is my memory loss 🙁

  51. I tried Gabapentin and it did very little for the pain in my feet. I was switched to Lyrica and it stopped the shooting pain on my feet. If I forget a dose, the pain returnsthat evening. However, my memory and usual brain function is not normal any more. Family has noticed also. Sounds like the same affects other people have from the Lyrica. Now what.

  52. I am currently on Gabapentin 2400 mg and Lyrica 100 mg a day for trigeminal neuralgia. Without these meds I would not be alive. They making having one of the most painful disorders/illness known to humankind bearable. While I have moments of forgetfulness, my memory is still better than most people I know. I am also able to learn new things. Need to research this more.

  53. I’m currently on 2700 mg a day and I’m pregnant. They said it was ok, because I got off all 6 of the others. I mm a burn survivor and I hurt terribly. Is this real? I’m worried for my baby. I’m only 27 yo

  54. Ok, so… this is messed up! I’ve been taking Neurontin for chronic pain and spinal stenosis for several years now, combined with either tramadol or norco. I take it because it works. Without it, most of the time I am hurting so badly that I just want to lie in bed and cry. I’ve already had cervical surgery which left me with nerve damage, pain, and numbness in my shoulders, arms, and hands. I suffer from sciatica in my hips and legs, and pain in my ankles and feet. I can’t imagine trying to get by without it… the pain is just too much for me to bear. I have noticed that I do seem to be forgetful at times, but i’d gladly trade that off if it means not suffering and writhing in pain daily. Until there is a better alternative, I hope they aren’t going to try to take this away too like they have done with all the bs you have to go through for other pain meds.

  55. I am outraged after reading this. I am 47 and am currently taking 1800 mg Gabapentin per day for chronic pain/illness in my legs due to severe diabetic phrefreral neuropathy. Over the last 10 years there were times i was prescribed Lyrica and Gabapentin. I was like a zombie and loss use in my right leg and have been confined to a wheelchair. My quality of life and my “entire” life has changed due to these dark horses! I thought they were helping but I fear they are slowly killing me. I’m saddened over this. I never married or had children, my heart breaks because I feel as though I was robbed. I’m at a crossroads with my situation and these drugs!

  56. Well, geez, I take Pregabalin (aka Lyrcia) for nerve pain. My legs give me so pain every time I try to go to sleep. The doctor ordered this back last fall. It works and I am able to sleep without feeling any pain around my legs and fee, due to diabetes. I take 1 capsule in A.M and again 1 capsule in P.M. Each pill is 150 mg. I have to keep taking it and then see the pharmacist to see if that is bad for me to keep on taking it.

  57. Well, geez, I take Pregabalin (aka Lyrcia) for nerve pain. My legs give me so pain every time I try to go to sleep. The doctor ordered this back last fall. It works and I am able to sleep without feeling any pain around my legs and feet.. I take 1 capsule in A.M and again 1 capsule in P.M. Each pill is 150 mg. I have to keep taking it and then see the pharmacist to see if that is bad for me to keep on taking it.

  58. I have fibromyalgia. I took all that crap with no results. I then discovered the fibromyalgia Guifenicin protocol. Guifenicin is the ingredient in muscinex. It’s changed my life and all but eliminated my pain with no side effects. No more gabapentin or Lyrica or Neurontin for me!!!!

  59. I forgot to mention that every time we’ve tried to stop taking it or even if we forget to take it at the right time we get the worst, most intense, withdrawals and it’s not even a narcotic! Pretty terrifying stuff.

  60. This is just awful. I too have been taking the Neurontin for years.At one point they had me on 800 mg 4xs a day. I gradually have decreased my dosage in the last year, because it is a drug that is dangerous to go off of cold turkey without dangerous side effects. But it’s definitely time to go off of this med. I’m also suffering the side effects of a bad memory. Pls keep me updated

  61. I have been on gabapenten(spelled wrong), no side effects that I know of. I saw the comment about marinol, don’t they use that to make people eat?

  62. I take 800 mg of gabapentin three times a day. I am beginning to lose all of my memory. Sign me up for the class action suit.

  63. I taKe gabapentin also and memory is shot. Ii forgot my Dad’s and my Husband of 28 years birthday this year
    along with many other things but it helps the nerve pain from a neck injury but surely there has to be something else that works with out all these side effects.

  64. I have been taking cholesterol meds (atorvastatin) which i gained weight taking these along with gabapentin 3x daily and Levetiracetam 2x daily…
    I have Moyamoya disease a rare brain disease and fibromyalgia, hypertension, factor V blood clot mutation and more…uncontrollable muscle spasms due to ischemic stroke in January of last year…i have had major memory loss and brain fog along with chest pain and the only thing that helps is a steroid(prednisone) but cant get it anymore. I guess for me…if i am not taking the medication, my side effects are death either way I look at it since there is no cure for Moyamoya.
    Its a cerebrovascular disease that causes TIAs, seizures and strokes due to lack of blood and oxygen supply to the brain.
    What the hell?! If you have another alternative let me know!

  65. One of the known side effects is Suicidal Ideation.

    My late wife Karen was on this crap when she killed herself. 🙁

    Some people say it works for them and that is great, from my perspective of grieving husband this stuff needs removed from the market.

  66. This is the actual study frequently referenced to on Internet with no link to the original study as “Neurontin and Lyrica are a Death Sentence for New Brain Synapses”:

    “Study pinpoints key mechanism in brain development, raising questions about use of antiseizure drug”
    https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2009/10/study-pinpoints-key-mechanism-in-brain-development-raising-questions-about-use-of-antiseizure-drug.html

    “Gabapentin Receptor α2δ-1 Is a Neuronal Thrombospondin Receptor Responsible for Excitatory CNS Synaptogenesis

    Çagla Eroglu, Nicola J. Allen, Michael W. Susman, Nancy A. O’Rourke, Chan Young Park, Engin Özkan, Chandrani Chakraborty, Sara B. Mulinyawe, Douglas S. Annis, Andrew D. Huberman, Eric M. Green, Jack Lawler, Ricardo Dolmetsch, K. Christopher Garcia, Stephen J. Smith, Z. David Luo, Arnon Rosenthal, Deane F. Mosher, Ben A. Barres

    Synapses are asymmetric cellular adhesions that are critical for nervous system development and function, but the mechanisms that induce their formation are not well understood. We have previously identified thrombospondin as an astrocyte-secreted protein that promotes central nervous system (CNS) synaptogenesis. Here, we identify the neuronal thrombospondin receptor involved in CNS synapse formation as α2δ-1, the receptor for the anti-epileptic and analgesic drug gabapentin. We show that the VWF-A domain of α2δ-1 interacts with the epidermal growth factor-like repeats common to all thrombospondins. “– In Cell Oct 16 2009.

  67. I can believe it. In 2010 I was diagnosed with RSD. My neurologist had me on 4800 mg a day! I didn’t hurt but I didn’t know apple butter from possum poop. When I burned my stomach with steam while ironing and didn’t even know it, that was a turning point for me. I gradually weaned myself off it the same way I had been instructed when dosage was increased. Definition of dilemma, lesser of two evils. Do you want to be pain free and existing or do you want to know and feel alive? These drugs numb your mind! I was a shell. Sometimes you just gotta deal.

  68. oh my…what is this world coming to? What isn’t going to kill us naturally, will help us along with medications. It’s bad enough knowing your brain function decreases naturally with age but to be helped along by certain meds!!! I myself take Neurontin and statins and was blaming getting older on my memory lapses….now I am worried 🙁 WOW!! How do we know the difference between age related problems and medication side effects?!? This is so scary and I am a nurse and had no idea. I definitely am going to talk to my doctor about this! As for the comment about smoking marijuanna and coughing with it everytime…they make diffusers that may be better for you in your legalized state. Check into that if you haven’t

  69. WHAT A JOKE. THE “SOURCE” THEY ARE CITING IS A SALES PAGE FOR NATURAL CURES. BUT ITS ON FACEBOOK SO IT MUST BE TRUE. LOL

  70. October 8, 2009, medical journal “Cell”, had article on this. Summary from Stanford: https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2009/10/study-pinpoints-key-mechanism-in-brain-development-raising-questions-about-use-of-antiseizure-drug.html

    Patorno E, Bohn RL, Wahl PM, et al. (April 2010). “Anticonvulsant medications and the risk of suicide, attempted suicide, or violent death”. JAMA 303 (14): 1401–9. doi:10.1001/jama.2010.410. PMID 20388896.

    Steinman MA, Bero LA, Chren MM, Landefeld CS. Narrative review: the promotion of gabapentin: an analysis of internal industry documents. Ann Intern Med 2006; 145:284-293. http://www.annals.org/content/145/4/284.full

  71. My husband David Taylor has been taking Gabapentin (300 MG) per day for his feet. He has
    been having memory loss for quite sometime now. He is a dialysis patient and has just
    found out he has small cell carsinoma lung cancer.

  72. I have been on lyrica for 2+ years now. It has helped me tremendously with my back spasms. I have sciatica, a hemorrhaged disc, my vertebraes have large splits in them and I also have scoliosis. Lyrica has been a god sent and has helped me through so much, but I have had ALOT of memory loss. I’ve noticed it decreasing over the past 6+ months now but never thought anything of it. I’m now terrified and I will be making a Drs appt asap!

  73. I took Lyrica years ago and had to stop taking it because it made me swell up so bad I could hardly walk. I recently tried Gabapentin and it did the same thing, so I quit taking it after a short time. It took me weeks to get the swelling to go down both cases. I will never take these drugs again especially since this has come to my attention and I’ll make sure I’ll let anyone I know that starts taking it or is taking it to stop taking it immediately. This is so dangerous! It should be taken off the market along with Cipro and many others.

  74. I’ve been taking Gabapentin for two years. Tried Lyrica. Did nothing. I am now up to 800mg 4x a day. The DEA maximum dosage. I wouldn’t want to be without it. Except for the weight gain no complaints. Now your insurance company should notify you that Gabapentin is going Control 4…

  75. I take Gabapentin 4 times a day-800mil at a pop. I have Serious nerve damage and without the Gabapentin The Neuropathy and nerve damage would be so bad that I could not function. I don’t seem to feel I have any of these side effects.
    I would love to see actual proof of this. Maybe it effects some like this, but not all I am sure. All meds have side effects.

  76. Cannabis oil is supposed to work well, but it is about $250 aweek and Ins. will not touch it. My room mate is stage 4 Pancreatic Cancer and is elligible but, who can afford it.

  77. I have been taking Lyrics for 2 years now for neuropathy in my feet. The only side effect has been a little weight gain and I couldn’t sleep without it. I will do further study on this, but as I’ve learned, not everything you read is necessarily true. From what I’ve read in previous comments, there are plenty of people ready to line up with their hand out wanting to sue the pharmaceutical companies for whatever they can get from them. Sad.

  78. I have been on neurotin and have noticed memory problems, as a matter of fact last week I got fired for not being able to remember simple procedures…

  79. I am unable to take estrogen as it can cause benign but painful tumors in my body but after a hysterectomy the severe hot flashes and extreme sweating was literally driving me insane. My ObGyn said gabapentin has been proven to be as effective as estrogen in treating menopausal symptoms. She started me out on 300 mcg a day for a week, then 600 a day for a week and then 900 a day for a week. The results were immediate and amazing at 300 mcg. My psychologist was concerned as he had been given this drug after surgery and it caused him to lose his short term memory for an entire day. He had no recall of driving 120 miles home. He said if you are getting results on 399 a day then why increase the dose? That made sense so I’m still just taking 300 a day but this post scares me if I’m going to have brain damage. I remember it caused brain fog years ago and had to quit taking it on the job. But I can’t stand the thought of returning to the hot flashes. Does anyone have suggestions for non estrogen relief if I quit the gabapentin?

    I tried Lyrica for depression and felt suicidal within 2 weeks and by 6 weeks I had set the date and time I would kill myself. I was taking 21 different prescriptions from a myriad of Doctors and think I had serotonin toxicity. Thank God my psychologist and my new internal medicine doctor intervened and took me off most all those drugs. I know take only what is absolutely necessary like my thyroid medication and Wellbutrin is the only psychogenic drug I take for depression. I don’t know what to do about this article but guess I’ll try to do without gabapentin. I swear the hot flashes were getting so bad I felt like I was going to burst into flames just sitting in my recliner and sweat ran down my face soaking my shirt.

  80. I have been on Gabapenten for years for restless legs and I have never had any problem with it. I am 81 years old and have been on it Since 1990 – 2017.

  81. I have been on Gabapentin for three years now an it helps but I have been finding it harder to remember things a little more each day I told my kids I thought it could b an early on set of Alzheimer’s so my this is the reason I am 49 now an I just don’t know what to think about it if any one could help me more with this let me know thanks

  82. This article is complete trash. Filled with inaccurate statements and anecdotal BS, this “Board-Certified Clinical Nutritionist” is definitely not in the pharmaceutical field. More potent Neurontin = Lyrica? Lolol

  83. REFERENCES
    1. Backonja M.. Beydoun A, Edwards KR et al. Gabapentin for the symptomatic treatment of painful neuropathy in patients with diabetes mellitus: a randomized controlled trial. JAMA 1998; 280(21): 1831-6. http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/280/21/1831
    2. Rowbotham M, Harden N, Stacey B et al. Gabapentin for the treatment of postherpetic neuralgia: a randomized controlled trial. JAMA 1998; 280: 1837-42. http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/280/21/1837
    3. Steinman MA, Bero LA, Chren MM, Landefeld CS. Narrative review: the promotion of gabapentin: an analysis of internal industry documents. Ann Intern Med 2006; 145:284-293. http://www.annals.org/content/145/4/284.full
    4. Backonja M.. Beydoun A, Edwards KR et al. Gabapentin for the symptomatic treatment of painful neuropathy in patients with diabetes mellitus: a randomized controlled trial. JAMA 1998; 280(21): 1831-6. http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/280/21/1831
    5. Rowbotham M, Harden N, Stacey B et al. Gabapentin for the treatment of postherpetic neuralgia: a randomized controlled trial. JAMA 1998; 280: 1837-42. http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/280/21/1837
    6. Tansey, Bernadette (2004-05-14). “Huge penalty in drug fraud, Pfizer settles felony case in Neurontin off-label promotion”. San Francisco Chronicle. p. C-1.
    7. USAtoday30.usatoday.com. “Pfizer fined $2.3 billion for illegal marketing in off-label drug case – USATODAY.com”. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2009-09-02-pfizer-fine_N.htm Retrieved 2015-10-14.
    8. US Food and Drug Administration. Center for Drug Evaluation and Research. “Drug Safety Labeling Changes – Lyrica (pregabalin) Capsules”. http://www.fda.gov. Retrieved 2015-10-14.
    9. Patorno E, Bohn RL, Wahl PM, et al. (April 2010). “Anticonvulsant medications and the risk of suicide, attempted suicide, or violent death”. JAMA 303 (14): 1401–9. doi:10.1001/jama.2010.410. PMID 20388896.
    10. Çagla Eroglu, Nicola J. Allen, Michael W. Susman, Nancy A. O’Rourke, Chan Young Park, Engin Özkan, Chandrani Chakraborty, Sara B. Mulinyawe, Douglas S. Annis, Andrew D. Huberman, Eric M. Green, Jack Lawler, Ricardo Dolmetsch, K. Christopher Garcia, Stephen. “Neurontin and Lyrica are Highly Toxic to New Brain Synapses Cell.”
    11. Mahncke, Henry W.; Bronstone, Amy; Merzenich, Michael M. (2006-01-01). “Brain plasticity and functional losses in the aged: scientific bases for a novel intervention”. Progress in Brain Research 157: 81–109. doi:10.1016/S0079-6123(06)57006-2. ISSN 0079-6123. PMID 17046669.

  84. I have been taking Gabapentin for awhile now and here recently I have been having issues with my brain confusion my brain hurts near the back and I have been getting headaches and I am forgetting stuff like my memory is off or just not focused I need some more info on this because it does help my fiber mi alga

  85. I have nerve damage really bad in my right arm. 6 years ago I was prescribed neurontin 800 mg. The highest dose. I have been falling.a lot as well. I’m a cancer patient, in fact just got out of the hospital. I also have epilepsy so I thought these symptoms were from epilepsy. Now I’m scared. What should all of us do?

  86. The VA hosp still give this out as gabapentin, they dont care what they give out to the Vets. we are nothing but test subjects for them, they have other meds that they give out that that cause major side effects and no other hosp will them give out.

  87. I had a stroke because of gabapentin at age 49, was put on it for a condition I didn’t have, and then fired from drs care who gave the drug to begin with and found the stroke – 8MOS later. After that, he claimed he couldn’t ‘help’ me anymore, even though he was a neurologist, who dealt with stroke patients.

  88. Omg everyone just trying to make a quick dollar.. Been taking neros for a long time and have no side effects at all.. I take 1200mg a day everyday..

  89. I used to take Neurontin because of my neurophy pain due to diabetes. But it wasn’t working for me, so my Dr. changed to Lyrica at 50mgs, no better, Dr. Upped the mgs to 100 mgs. 3 times a day so I’ve been on this meds for about 3 months.My memory is about shot, when walking I weave and stumble a lot. After reading this I’m getting a little, should I talk to my Dr. about this? To get something else for my pain?

  90. I was on Neurontin for years for migraines for years! The side effects were ALMOST worse than the migraines! I stopped taking it, but I still have the side effects, and still have the migraines.

  91. I can’t function without my Neutontin. I take it with Topamax and the combination keeps me out of the ER with my migraines!!! It has been godsend for me!!!
    I can’t take Lyrica. I took one and it knocked me out and I slept all day.

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  94. Hi, thank goodness I stumbled across this thread. I have been prescribed Gabapentin (Nupentin 300) for torn Achilles pain. I take 1800mgs per day, definitely noticed a change in balance and memory, word finding is terrible. Im 54 and prior to reading this article was convinced i had early onset dementia. Mylan NZ Ltd, Auckland, have some serious questions to answer.

  95. My memory and speach has been effected and My thinking is often foggy..I’m on Lyrica didn’t realise it’s long term effects ..not good

  96. Jesus Christ. “I’m on Lyrica for fibro and I can’t remember anything.” Are you fucking stupid? Memory issues with fibro is SO common, the symptom is literally called FIBRO FOG. But yes, let’s mull over a class action based on the VERY COMMON practice of off-label use, because of some idiotic shit article written a nutritionist (not an actual MD or a pharmacologist or a biochemist) and published in some alarmist rag, not a reputable journal. Kay then.

  97. I am so glad it’s not just me, we really should start a class action suit, I have lost so much of my memory and have balance issues. I fall down a lot, I am so tired of feeling stupid.

  98. I am on 1200 mg of gaba and 50mg of lyrica I wake up with a headache and can’t walk a straight line for the life of me i have been forgetting simple stuff like what I want in to a room for and I just thought it was for my fibro even though I have good days and bad days would like to know if i should talk to my dr about it and either get taken off or trying something new
    Thanks Bonnie

  99. I’m all in for a class action suit. My memory has declined so much in the past 5 years. I was getting worried I might have had something serious going on in my head. And the lack of balance “wow”,where do I begin. This cannot be good. I’m worried what permanent damage this might have caused already.

  100. the drug makers and the FDAgully understand ….General
    The most common adverse reactions to this drug are dizziness, somnolence, dry mouth, edema, blurred vision, weight gain, and “thinking abnormal” (primarily difficulty with concentration/attention).[Ref]

  101. Everyone on here keeps repeating the same shit “same here I been taking neurotin for x amount if years and Its fucking my entire body an mind up ” or something along those lines. How can every single one of you be so fucking ignorant to keep taking a pill that is causing more damage than helping with the problem. You sound like a bunch of idiots. I guess everyone keeps taking them so they can sue the company after they can’t even think for themselves. You all sound so stupid. Sorry ppl fucking themselves up just for a chance to make some money so they can sit in their ass the rest their lives. Maybe you can give the money to your children grandchildren nieces nephews or whatever when you can’t even use it because you were such a sorry sack of shit an wanted not to work so badly that you fucked yourself up. Gah you’re morons any of you that commented admitting to knowing the drug was fucking up your health. Amazes me

    • Well, people are just sharing their experience and what they were doing. They are saying same here, doesn’t means that they are still taking that pill. If they know that it damages, that’s mean they are now aware, but sharing their experience.

  102. Hi All
    I am astounded by some of the doses you guys are on, are they the prescribed doses? presumably, most of you are in the USA? In Australia the max legal prescribed dose for Lyrica, gabapentin etc is meant to be 600mg, which is what i am on-though i do admit to at times having taken higher doses because you build, or at least i do a tolerance to it fast. I find i have the fog while it is in my system at the higher doses but at the 600mg barely notice it anymore except for the fact that some of the nerve pain isn’t as bad as what it is when i run out. And then sometimes i wonder if that is just withdrawal. As for off label use, every drug has an off label use of one kind, if not 1000s more, it is practical and how the company makes its money back for research etc. I personally have found although not prescribed to me for migraines when i take it for one it does help ALOT. I am on so many other medications that other than the weight gain the side effects from Lyrica are the least of my worries. I suffer RLS and Insomnia and my doc had me on Seroquel for it as an off label use at 400mg a night, it took me 6 months to wean it down at my own insistence as i was starting to suffer regular heart palpations and had gained over the 15 years on it with the other meds over an extra 40kilos. In the past month without changing anything else i have lost 12kg. Many of you are on so my extra meds, and it is no judgement because so am i [at one point i was on 20ml of 10mg liquid morphine a day by prescription] but you need to remember that all these drugs interact too. Unless you are ONLY taking Lyrica or gaba you cannot single handed blame it for symptoms, especially when so many of the other medications have similar effects.

  103. I’ve been off Gabepentin (Neurontin) for about 6 months now and still have issues. Forget easy things. Walk into a store and forget what I went for. Have issues trying to remember how to spell easy words, depression issues, I can be sitting talking to you and not remember a word you said to me. It’s like I’m not in the room. I was taking 100mg 3 times a day. While on it, I would lose my balance. Thoughts of worthlessness and whether I belonged, forgetting things was worse, I would get irritated very easily. This drug is no joke. Yes it helped my leg pain from a herniated disc, but having a spinal fusion so far was the best decision. Wish I would have never taken it.

  104. I have been taking it for years..cant think..my eyes go cross eyed every so often can’t see straight until I close my eyes and rest.get dizzy…cant remember 5 minutes after you say something…all is getting worse

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